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justinisthecrazy
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: is suicide a forgiveable sin? |
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lets talk about this. It is a hard topic for most and for me as well. But I honestly have to know and must ask.
Is suicide a sin? if its a sin how does one get forgiveness? |
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carrtoondragon
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Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to go ahead and start off with the statement: I have no idea.
That being said, I think it really goes on the basis of what your viewpoint of salvation is. If you go from the point of "Once Saved always saved" then you would probably say yes they have forgiveness. But if you are more on the side of "You have to repent after you sin to be right with God and go to heaven" then Suicide poses a major threat to salvation in that instance.
I believe it is a sin though, because God tells us not to Murder. I would think that it would count for yourself as well as anyone else. Plus that is taking your life into your own hands, going against the will of God. And I think anything that goes against God can be considered sin(my personal basic definition for sin usually is: Anything that goes against God).
Once this guy said there was a verse in the Bible that said if you committed suicide then you wouldn't go to heaven, but he forgot where it was found. He was a respectable guy though so I don't know if that is correct or incorrect.
I think there is more I could add, but I'm going to stop now. I may jump back in the conversation later. |
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WOOKIEE
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Joined: 19 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
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I agree with what Jorden had to say but this is what I truly believe:
I believe that if you try to commit suicide but you fail in killing yourself and you realize that you sinned against God and you truly repent within your heart and ask God for forgiveness you are forgiven.
If you succeed in killing yourself you will go straight to hell because murder is a sin against God and there is no point between death and hell where you can ask God for forgiveness.
I believe that if you commit murder but truly repent within your heart and ask God for forgiveness, you are forgiven.
I believe that killing in self-defense is forgiveable too. |
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joanna
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| WOOKIEE wrote: |
If you succeed in killing yourself you will go straight to hell because murder is a sin against God and there is no point between death and hell where you can ask God for forgiveness.
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If you cannot get into heaven without having every sin repented of then a great deal of Christians who die unexpectedly aren't going to make it into heaven because unless you are repenting lots of times a day, you've probably sinned since the last time you repented.
I have a hard time believing that if someone who has faithfully followed God and repented of all their sins previously, commits suicide as a result of mental illness or extreme pain from a disease God is going to go "you've been walking with me for decades but because you weren't able to repent of that one last sin i'm reversing the decision i previously make to forgive you and i'm sending you to hell instead"
we really need to be very careful about making rash pronouncements about the fate of people who have committed suicide. It might be an abstract theologically issue for some of you, but i know for many people on this board they will have been impacted by it through attempted and failing themselves or knowing someone who was successful. |
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WOOKIEE
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Joined: 19 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| I have more to say on what you said jonna but because of your last statement I'm not going to. |
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frostedecho
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| If you commit suicide and you are a believer, than you will not go to hell. Once saved you are always saved (Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure there are many believers who have died unexpectedly and not asked again for forgiveness for their sins they commited before they died, but as they are sealed by the Holy Spirit they will go to heaven when they die. |
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Jesusgirl1
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Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 814
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Um I think it is, If you ask for forgiveness God will forgive you.But you have to ask for it though. But thats just my opinion. PLEASSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEE tell me if I am wrong! Thanks.
~ Me. |
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justinisthecrazy
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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This might seem like a perplexing question, but it does have an answer. Though the Christian who has committed suicide has committed a grave sin, he is still forgiven. But, in order to understand why a Christian who commits suicide is forgiven, we first need to understand what salvation is and what it is based upon.
Salvation is the state of being saved from God's judgment upon the sinner. The only way to be saved is to trust Jesus for the forgiveness of one's sins (John 14:6, Acts 4:12). All who do not trust Jesus alone, by faith (Rom. 5:1; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) are not forgiven and go to hell when they die (Matt. 25:46; John 3:1 . When Jesus forgives someone, He forgives all their sins and gives them eternal life and they shall never perish (John 10:2. He does not give them temporary eternal life -- otherwise, it would not be eternal.
Salvation is not based upon what you do. In other words, you don't have to obey any Law of God in order to become saved. This is because no one is saved by keeping the Law of God (Gal. 2:21; Rom. 3:24-2. But that does not mean that you can go and sin all you want. Rom. 6:1-3 expressly condemns such action. Instead, we are saved for the purpose of purity (1 Thess. 4:7). Our salvation is strictly by God's: "By grace through faith you have been saved…" (Eph. 2:. Other than acting by faith in trusting and accepting what Jesus did on the cross, you don't do a thing (John 1:12-3) in order to become saved. Since you did not get your salvation by what you did, you can not lose it by what you do.
What about the unforgivable sin? Is that suicide? No. Suicide is not the unforgivable sin. Jesus spoke of the unforgivable sin in Matt. 12:22-32. The context is when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the devil. Therefore, suicide is not the unforgivable sin. |
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joanna
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 461
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| WOOKIEE wrote: | | I have more to say on what you said jonna but because of your last statement I'm not going to. |
If you can find find a way to say it gracefully go ahead. Just putting the reminder to prevent unnecessary hurt to happening if someone to come in here and post in an unnecessarily harsh manner which often happens online. As it is a very sensitive topic we do need to be vary careful. |
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hawknelsonaddict
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 1724
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| frostedecho wrote: | | If you commit suicide and you are a believer, than you will not go to hell. Once saved you are always saved (Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure there are many believers who have died unexpectedly and not asked again for forgiveness for their sins they commited before they died, but as they are sealed by the Holy Spirit they will go to heaven when they die. |
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." -Ephesians 4:30 (NIV)
first off, that verse can be defined several different ways. it doesnt say straight up that once saved always saved. its how you "read" the verse
secondly i have a hard time believing once saved always saved. thats just too easy. its like a ddrug and alchohol addict gets saved and then goes back to his old ways, even though the Bible is against it.
"You shall not murder." -Deuteronomy 5:17 (NIV)
suicide is murder. you're murdering yourself
"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" -I Corinthians 6:19 (NIV)
you aren't supposed to harm your body with drugs, alchohol, or murdering yourself. and, frostedecho, it mentions the Holy Spirit being in you (not you as one but Christians) and you're still not suppsed to harm yourself.
now what i believe is that (as you may have already noticed) i think if you commit suicide you go straight to hell. you're saying you have no regard for life, that you weren't happy with God giving you life. (this is all my opinion this is a forum we debate and this forum we need to say what we believe.) |
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carrtoondragon
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Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| hawknelsonaddict wrote: | | secondly i have a hard time believing once saved always saved. thats just too easy. its like a ddrug and alchohol addict gets saved and then goes back to his old ways, even though the Bible is against it. |
Well, drugs and alcohol aren't exactly easy to give up. What about when they accept Christ and are still struggling to recover from it. It could take years for them to remove themselves from them. Are they still saved? Not everyone just accepts Christ and quits immediately.
I do see where you are coming from though. Salvation shouldn't be something where we accept Christ and then go back to the way we were before...
Ephesians 4:17-24
"So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. " |
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joanna
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 461
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| hawknelsonaddict wrote: |
now what i believe is that (as you may have already noticed) i think if you commit suicide you go straight to hell. you're saying you have no regard for life, that you weren't happy with God giving you life. (this is all my opinion this is a forum we debate and this forum we need to say what we believe.) |
Its one thing to prove that it is a sin (and i agree with the proofs you have made that it is a sin) but committing a sin, while bad, doesn't automatically make a believer hell bound (or most of us would only be saved for pretty short periods of time). What is the biblical proof that this particular sin is so radically different from all the other ones that it is able to cancel out salvation?
What if you were mentally ill and therefore it wasn't a matter of having no regard for life or trying to disrespect god, more that the illness had made you loose your grip on rational thought? |
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justinisthecrazy
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Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| hawknelsonaddict wrote: |
now what i believe is that (as you may have already noticed) i think if you commit suicide you go straight to hell. you're saying you have no regard for life, that you weren't happy with God giving you life. (this is all my opinion this is a forum we debate and this forum we need to say what we believe.) |
Theres one thing wrong with the way you believe the Bible tells us different
What about the unforgivable sin? Is that suicide? No. Suicide is not the unforgivable sin. Jesus spoke of the unforgivable sin in Matt. 12:22-32. The context is when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the devil. Therefore, suicide is not the unforgivable sin. |
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hawknelsonaddict
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 1724
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| justinisthecrazy wrote: | | hawknelsonaddict wrote: |
now what i believe is that (as you may have already noticed) i think if you commit suicide you go straight to hell. you're saying you have no regard for life, that you weren't happy with God giving you life. (this is all my opinion this is a forum we debate and this forum we need to say what we believe.) |
Theres one thing wrong with the way you believe the Bible tells us different
What about the unforgivable sin? Is that suicide? No. Suicide is not the unforgivable sin. Jesus spoke of the unforgivable sin in Matt. 12:22-32. The context is when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the devil. Therefore, suicide is not the unforgivable sin. |
does it say that its the ONLY unforgivable sin? |
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calebsbicyclerepair
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Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Unforgivable ? I don't know , but it's a sin. It was stated as one of the ten commandments "Thou shalt not kill" .......I think that includes yourself .
Well let me put it this way , The only people that know this are probably already dead by suicide ....but GOD himself knows this question , ASK HIM .
Caleb |
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